This is your opportunity to ask Andrew G Marshall for more information about the issues covered in the book. Be aware, the questions and Andrew’s answers will be posted on this website - or used in his books or newspaper articles - so you may wish to avoid personal information that could reveal your identity.
Dear Andrew
Thanks in advance for your help…the book is fantastic and has cheered me up and given me hope. However, I do need some guidance…
I’ve known my wife for over 30 years (grew up together abroad) and our relationship turned romantic some 15 years ago and have been married for 8 years. I discovered that my wife was having an affair about 3 weeks ago. She had a previous affair 3 years earlier but she told me about that one and we “moved on” from this (or so I thought).
Having confronted her about the latest affair, she denied it at first but once I said I had evidence she then said that she was sorry that I had to find out that way. We then tried to talk about why she was unfaithful – she just wouldn’t open up to me or tell me anything. I then asked whether she was that deeply unhappy about us that drove her to do this. She said she wasn’t deeply unhappy with us. I then said was it that she didn’t enjoy sex? She said no, that sex was good in the past between us and that I wasn’t unattractive – in fact she said that I was the best looking guy she had a relationship with! But she did say she was confused and depressed.
I forgave her on the night I found out about the affair. She started crying when I said that she had been forgiven and she said that she didn’t deserve me and that I was too good for her. We agreed that we should get counselling to try and address why she was unfaithful again.
She then gave me the ILYB speech and that she was unable to choose between me and her lover although she said that she ended the relationship (upon my request) soon after I had found out what was going on. She also said that we should perhaps go for a trial separation but I said that we should not act in haste given that we have a toddler who we both love to bits.
I’ve expressed my love for her and that I have never loved anyone else other than her and giving her loads of affection but she isn’t reciprocating. Looking back at my behaviour over the first week of the crisis, I felt that this was coming across as needy, desperate and probably deeply unattractive to her (she’s not used to me being like this)! So I changed my approach the following week and have done the opposite – no longer saying I love her and only occasionally given her a hug and a kiss on the mornings when I leave for work, act happy and positive about things – the strange thing is that some of this is rubbing off on her and she seems to be in a slightly better frame of mind.
Relate counselling sessions are to take place next year but in advance of this:
What can I do to help her open up to me?
What first steps do we need to take?
So far I’ve tried being loving, going on a romantic dinner in luxurious surroundings, gone Salsa dancing (wasn’t so comfortable about this although she always was asking me to go with her), written some short love notes, sent text messages (something I never do), got her some jewellery and hidden it for her to find it later, but I feel none of this is helping her open up to me.
PS She’s halfway through reading your book (which can only be a good sign).
Andrew writes: I am glad that you have found my book useful and that your wife has decided to read it too. Even better, you are getting marital counselling together in the new year (Just a practical point, it is best to approach RELATE several weeks before you actually want counselling. Although they provide an introductory session quite quickly - normally within in a week or two - you will then go onto a waiting list and this can take anything from two weeks to two months.)
With your personal case, there are two points that I want to make. The first is about the affair. I am concerned about how quickly you ‘forgave’ your wife. Partly because in the shock of discovering, it is difficult to know anything and partly because something given so quickly (and possibly without thinking it through) can be devalued. In reality, the only way to truly forgive is to deal with all the complicated feelings of jealousy, betrayal and to rebuild trust again. In my experience, that take months not minutes.
So for you to reach forgiveness, so quickly, you will have had to suppress and push down all your complicated and dark feelings…. and this brings me onto my second point. You sound an incredibly nice person. There is nothing wrong with that - in fact we need more nice people in this world - however it is possible to be too nice. I find a lot of guys today suffer from the same problem, they will bend over backwards to please their wives and instead of being grateful, they lose respect and don’t find their husbands particularly sexy!
Why should this be? it’s back to not showing your feelings again. If she does something terrible - like cheating, saying she’s given up the affair and still carrying on - but you only react deep inside (where she cannot see) she either thinks you do not care, you are a total wimp or that nothing she does (however horrible) moves you. All of these things would make her feel very alone. Getting angry is not only real, and honest, but it shows - in a strange way - that you care.
By all means do nice things for your wife - doing the salsa for her shows you are prepared to go the extra mile - but ask for things in return too. When she says something horrible, don’t be silent or turn the other cheek, tell her how you feel. For example, I had a wife who had had an affair and in counselling said it was because ‘my husband is getting old, saggy and losing his hair’. He just sat there. I’m not suggesting that you are rude back but saying nothing or being nice is deeply unhelpful. (Fortunately, Relate will help you to stand up for yourself more and hopefully make the power balance more even)
Finally, please read the chapters about arguments again and then once more. It will help bring your feelings to the surface, become more honest with your wife and stop her from turning you into a doormat. Next time, she says something unfair, don’t just walk away, stay and fight your case. It will make you feel better and in the long-run it will provide a ‘realness’ rather than ‘fake niceness’ onto which the two of you can build a good and strong relationship.
Dear Andrew
I have just had the ‘ILYB’ conversation from my Partner of 4 years. Within a month we have gone from a loving relationship, to ‘ILYB’ and moved out a week ago. Hand on heart I never saw it coming, I am very good a picking up vibes. Jon (my partner) has a 13 year old Son and has always been a part time Dad since James was 6 weeks old. He has always played a big part in James life, always been there for him - James never goes without anything. Suddenly he feels that he wants to see James every other day and that James needs him more now. He says that because he has always been a part-time Dad, James will not want to see him, so he’s now renting a flat two minutes from where James lives. He’s also under a lot of pressure at work. He is still very loving towards me, he hugs me very tight (it almost feels like I’m the one that has decided to break up), he has been quite tearful at times. At this moment in time does not want to sell the house, unless I decide to move out. He is still paying all the bills and says he will pay them forever. There is a big part of me that doesn’t believe for one minute he’s stopped loving me - he does say that part of him wants me, the other doesn’t. He did also say that he needed to go away to sort his head out. I’m hurting like hell, I feel angry and confused. I am well aware of my own faults and the part I’ve played in this (I’m very good at putting myself down), but for the life of me I don’t understand how someone who really loved me a few months ago, to suddenly ‘ILYB….’ I am reading your book, the chapter on ‘If your Relationship has reached Crisis Point’ is particular helpful. I’m very good at over analysising everything.
Andrew writes: It sounds like your partner is having a crisis of some sort and in the initial shock and drama, it is difficult to work out exactly what is happening and why. For this reason, I would also look carefully at Chapter Eight. Is it the relationship or something else? As I write, it is very easy for the relationship to take all the blame but the real problems are hidden deeper down.
If I was seeing your partner for counselling, I would be interested in ‘why now’. In other words, why are the pressures at work so great right now? Why does he feel his son needs him so badly at thirteen? What has been happening recently in your relationship? Is he coming up to a milestone birthday? Has something happened recently that has made him take stock of his life and find it wanting? There is another question that I would be interested in, what happened to your partner when he reached thirteen? Sometimes someone close to us - like a son - reaching that same age can re-awake long buried issues.
However, I am not counselling your partner but trying to help you cope. So what should you do? Firstly, I would not try and ’solve’ the problem for him. If you can find the ‘the answer’ and wave my book or it, under his nose he will probably get defensive. This is partly because nobody likes to be told what to do, but mostly because it seems to devalue the depth of his feelings today. So my advice is to make listening your number one priority…..get him to expand on his feelings, ask for more information. (I call this active listening and if you look back through my other answers you will see it outlined) At no point, try and convince him to stay or try and solve the problems. Just say: ‘I see’ and ‘tell me more’…. and see what comes out. Until he stumbles on the missing piece of the problem or the two of you discover it together, you won’t know how to move forward on this.
In the meantime, be kind to yourself, take everything one step at a time, surround yourself with sensible and supportive friends and don’t panic. This will take time to sort out but there is no reason why you cannot come out the other end with a stronger and better relationship.
Dear Andrew
Thank you for your book, it’s a great piece of work and has helped me understand and given me hope
We have been together for 13 years (I am 50 she is 40), we are not married, but have 3 girls 9, 6, 4, I got ILYB speech recently, there have been problems for some time though I have been burying my head in the sand, finally it manifested itself in my partner contacting old boyfriend who is a bit of a lad (though 8 years older than me) and with whom she had an exiting affair before we met, during this affair he was seeing another women who he has since married, however they are currently experiencing problems, and she has met him and kissed him and tried to arrange sex in hotel (which did not take place), she tells me it is over and I want to believe her. We have been seeing a counsellor that was recommended to her by a friend, she saw the counsellor alone at first, they I joined a few weeks later, this counsellor was not a relate counsellor (I believe the terminology is she was a “person centred counsellor”), and though very professional did not seem to encourage reconciliation, but I felt encouraged her decision to split up. The situation is on hold for now, we speak, we touch, we even have sex very occasionally (probably more times since ILYB than on the past 4 years), but I live in fear of the final decision
My question relates to the 7 stages, how fixed are the time-scales you list, after 12 years we should be going through collaboration, moving into adapting, however she says that we have not achieved loving attachment yet (though you suggest this should come at about 18 months), also I feel that we have been through nesting, we have a home, and though its in her name (she is the major breadwinner) we have built it together, and though my employment record was patchy earlier on I have been in a reasonable job now for about the last 7 years. We do not have a joint account but it all goes in the same pot.
Self affirming is interesting as she is showing signs of wishing to reassert herself (she says I have never supported her in her sporting activities. She likes running, and being fit and healthy is very important to, her both personally and professionally), and money has been tight for a while (though things are getting better as the kids leave paid nursery and go to school) and she was unable to spend money on herself. Is it possible we could be going through this stage as late as 12 years into the relationship?
I feel that time is our biggest enemy; our lives consist of work, children, sleep. We went away for a night which was a success, but on returning home have come back down to earth with a bump, and chances of getting away on a regular basis is slim and child-minding is a huge issue for us.
When there is not the bond of marriage (though of course we have children) what could we do to show or encourage commitment, she has an engagement ring, but has not worn it for 4/5 years, and has refused to marry me in the past, though this would be “my” ideal outcome.
Any advice would be welcome
Andrew writes: The ‘Six Stages in my Book’ and their time scales are only guidelines, so do not worry if you do not fit exactly. Having three children together, you have certainly reached ‘Collaborating’. However, it is certainly possible that after a shock - like the affair - that both have you need to slip back to ‘Self-affirming’ and rediscover what is important to you (beyond your roles as parents). Your wife certainly seems to have thought about her needs but what about you? What do you want? Or do you feel unable to express your needs?
My other question is if you have both got over the affair yet? She must have been extraordinarily unhappy (and in need of excitement) to plan this rendez-vous with her ex. You must have been terribly hurt. Have the issues here been pushed under the carpet too soon? My fear is that because you want everything to be okay, you have moved on without really learning and under the surface both of you are unhappy.
I would point out that couple counselling is a specialist field. It is very different from seeing people for individual therapy and an occasional couple on the side. It is hard to hold onto the different agendas of the two halves of the relationship and the relationship itself all at the same time. Unfortunately, lots of people who have not been properly tained think that they can pull it off. (Sorry, about the rant!)
Finally, I am left with this nagging suspicion that you do not assert yourself enough. You sound so reasonable, so accommodating and so ‘nice’ that you never stand-up for yourself. This attitude can turn men into a bit of a doormat - which is a big turn-off to women. So maybe we are back to self-affirming. Who are you? What is important for you? Take your head out of the sand and start fighting for it.
Dear Andrew
I have written to you before concerning my 28yrs marriage, just to recap, lost house, business, death of father, and career change. Went to the US had an affair, been home since Jan. He had been ending the affair as would not leave me until I was financially stable and she would not wait. I found out in Aug and after much talking he said that he had felt a connection with me that he had never felt before and that we had a chance and that he would stop all emails etc whilst we were trying, a year or so, but he would like to remain friends with her.
Yesterday he told me she had emailed him and that he has decided that his feeling are under control and waning and that he will be friends with her, just the odd cordial email as he does not want to lose her friendship. I was understandably upset as I feel it is unrealistic and will undermine us, but I have no say in it. He says he chose to stay with me in Jan and that should be enough, and that I can see the emails if I want, but if I cannot stand it he will leave. He has become a lot harder and the closeness after the affair admission is behind a barrier. His extreme emotions have subsided but I still do not like the idea of contact. He says he thought our marriage was over and that I did not care or love him, that is why the affair happened. I have problems showing my emotions and he said I was very strong/hard but this was too much for me and for the first time I sobbed my heart out, he cuddled me but says it just makes him feel guilty when I try to talk about things, that there is no use talking as things will be what they will be.
It is a mid-life as he says if he leaves it will not be for her but for himself as he only has possibly 20yrs left and he wants to be happy and me to be as well. The affair was a catalyst that made him realise how unhappy he was, and how it could be, and maintains no matter what I say or do that I do not love him as much as I say I do. He talks openly about if we break up, with no emotion, that he wants us to always be very interlinked, financially,business and even have a house together with all our stuff in that we can use. He cannot understand why I get so upset, and that I would not want to see him as it would upset me and be harder for me to get on with my life. He was genuinely surprised saying that if he had left for his woman in Jan surely I would have kept in close contact after so long together. He wants to get a house abroad together to put all our belongs in and rent in London so that we can have a more interesting life, and see how we feel, its as though he is dragging it out hoping for me to change dramatically or get a new life so he can leave guilt free.
He wants me to find myself,travel etc as he finds me uninteresting. I went away for 2 wks as I do not think going away for along time will help as we would not be working at the marriage. He called every day although said he would not but was very distant and embarrassed with me on my return and said that he staying with me would be the easiest thing in the world but it would be too cosy and that he needs spontaneity, passion and enthusiasm for life like his woman, although even she is too staid for him. He seems to have unrealistic ideas and is prepared to be on his own rather than he says, he would rather die than lead a dull life.It is sad because this is the first time in our life that we do have the money and time to enjoy ourselves and he is messing it all up.
Everything seems to be a test, after a marvellous evening out at an expensive restaurant, he woke in the night to interrogate me about when was my most perfect time, I said that I had had many and he I had blown it and that at least I did not think that evening had been one, and that he could not tell me his as it was about her.
He says if he leaves it will not be for her but about him and that he feels trapped and wants to run away from everything and everybody. He goes from being really friendly as though nothing was wrong,to being totally cold and intensely irritated by me to cuddling all night, although he says he just feels compassion and warmth towards me nothing deeper, and no sex he says he is not interested at all with anyone, this is so different to his normal self.He wants only to do bondage type sex, it is as though he wants to be punished for what he has done.
You advised before to ‘act as if’ is this still suitable as we are still at crisis point, he says he wants me to show my emotion and love for him, but is stony cold when I hug him in the day etc. I am concerned I am coming over as too needy. I know I need to get my own life, but it is difficult as I am an artist that works at home, and do not have friends in the area.I thought I might go away for short periods, 3/4 days at a time to give each other space, me to sort my head out and try new things.
How do I handle this to keep my mental health? I have been suffering badly from insommnia and panic attacks, especially at night, as he often starts talking in the night about I should not be afraid of the future etc which I find depressing and he cuddles me to make me feel better, this cannot be good as he hates weakness and cannot be doing me any good.
I try to live day to day and be optimistic, but he almost daily says about he doesn’t know if we can make it, and I feel low again. Not looking to the future isn’t that just blocking out and not processing it?
He will not go to counselling, I have been to a Relate counsellor once, I did feel a bit more confident, but he was only concerned about my feelings about the relationship in the past and did not give any advise on handling the situation.
Sorry it is so long
Thanks
Andrew writes: Congratulations on pulling the relationship back from the brink and getting the show back on the road again. However, I think you are ready to move onto the next stage of recovering from an affair. For you to really trust him - rather than ‘acting as if’ - you need to begin to solve some of the underlying problems in your marriage. It will also help your husband to feel happier and more settled.
So I am going to suggest RELATE again, I know he does not want to come. He probably thinks it will be about the affair and that he will ‘told off’ about his infidelity. However, counsellors are not there to judge - just to understand. In addition, a good counsellor will help you look at what needs to be done about the relationship today - and bring the focus from past mistakes onto solving the problems today and what changes need to be made for the future. (This focus will also help you to stop worrying about this other woman and to not feel the relationship is over if your husband express his doubts and fears)
Show your husband my email and see if that will make him reconsider. The first session anyway is an information giving one and he can test the waters and find out for himself with no long term commitment.
If we won’t go, I would still go on your own and hopefully he will join you later into the process. Finally, I would re-read my book and look, in particular, at the chapters on arguing and improving communication. This will help the two of you communicate better and begin to re-tool your relationship for the road ahead.
Dear Andrew,
I bought you book yesterday after my husband of 14 years left me 3 weeks ago. He left without saying why or giving me or our 2 children any explanation other than ” I need to clear my head.” My husband has always worked away so I have used work as an excuse for our children who are both distraught that their Dad is not at home at all. He did speak to me over the phone about how he feels, this never reached the ILYB statement but it was all there. The first scenario in your book could have been written about us.
I love my husband completely. I have done nothing but analyse our relationship since he left and am able to recognise what has happened to us but it seems this is too late. I am desperate for it not to be. At moment he has gone away to try and sort his head out but this is proving so difficult to bear. I promised I would not contact him while he was away, he rings the children but not me. It has been 3 long weeks basically without any real contact and my ability to cope with the situation, the children , my emotions and all the domestic chores is starting to crumble. I am a wreck, I have not eaten for nearly 3 weeks, I don’t sleep and I have to go back to work next week.
What I am asking is can our marriage be saved, how do I get him to talk to me and how can I introduce him to the strategies in your book when he is not here .
I am full of fear for the future for all of us so much so it is too much to bear. I am so sad that he has felt like this when I thought we were so happy together.I feel like it is all my fault even though that is not the case. I cannot begin to describe how bad I feel but so relieved that I found your book and this website. Just writing it down has helped.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Andrew writes: I am so sorry to hear about your problems. It sounds like you are being tested to the limit of your endurance. However, I believe that not only will your marriage survive this crisis but equally importantly you will grow in strength too.
From your letter, I am assuming that your husband plays all his emotional cards close to his chest and absorbs all the stress around him. I expect, he is a very diligent father and a good provider too. He probably works long hours too. Either because he finds it hard to express himself or because he wants to protect you, I think he keeps back a lot of his feelings (Probably a bit of the both.) On one hand this is very admirable, but on the other, it is absolutely exhausting and it can become very lonely too. He has reached the point where he would either break or go under. So in his mind, escape is the only option.
So how do you cope while he is licking his wounds and finding the energy to confront the future? Your first task is look after yourself and the children. You need to rebuild your strength by eating and sleeping better and keeping on top of the chores. If he feels like you are crumbling, this will make him feel even more dejected and overwhelmed. So the message to him should be, ‘I can cope, I am strong and I can help you with your problems too’. How do you manage this? Firstly, read my chapter on ‘Coping Day to Day’ and rigidly follow the rule about thinking no further into the future than the next seven days. You can cope in that time frame - when you start thinking about the ‘future’ is when you crumble. Secondly, if you find yourself obsessing about him, put up a mental stop sign and tell yourself ‘I can cope, I am strong…….’ And then distract yourself with a treat or something vigorous like a run or scrubbing the kitchen floor. (It will help you sleep better too) Thirdly, reach out to your friends and family for support (but please chose the practical ones not the ones who will pump up your distress.)
When he is ready, give him a chance to unburden and tell you everything that is worrying him. Don’t interrupt or beg him to stay or wave my book around as the answer. Just listen. Then ask him about the rest of his problems and the rest and the rest. When he is all talked out, you can offer to take up your share (if I am right that he’s carrying all the load - at least in his own head). Give him time, be strong, be inspirational and you will be surprised what you can achieve for both yourself and your marriage.
Dear Andrew,
It’s really heartbreaking as far as what is happening to my affair with this wonderful married man ( I am married too)..The relationship was absolutely Fantastic in the beginning…He always complemented me (he told me he loved me on the 2nd date..!), and said I was the most beautiful, fantastic, loveable woman he’s ever met..that he didn’t want anybody else..He’d call me every single day (sometimes twice a day), and I felt happily pursued in the beginning with his daily off-line messages on the computer..Eventually I started falling in love with him, and now I’m badly hooked on him, and he knows it. ( I actually even told him, I was badly hooked on him!).
It’s a long story..He started to pull away after I was constantly trying to reach him on his cell phone ,it being repeatedly off for about 2 or 3 days ( I was on vacation with my husband somewhere, and before I left for vacation, Greg said he’d miss me,.. he called me when I was away with my husband, about 3 times, saying he missed the hell out of me..he sounded very sad and bothered on the the phone..after I hung up with him, I started thinking he might have thought I didn’t care about him, me being my neurotic self…) So then I started behaving desperately, constantly leaving him messages, asking him to call me, if he was mad at me., until I absolutely thought he broke up from me, by his never returning my calls!) I left him a tearful voice message assuming 100 percent he broke up from me).I messaged him on the computer when I got home., asking him to call me…emailed him to let me know if he wanted to end it with me..text messaged him…when I got home he left me an an email saying his cell phone broke! (being the reason I’ve hadn’t heard from him the rest of the time on vacation) ..Then I left him an email saying I was Overjoyed to hear from him, and that I thought he left me., and that he’s got me badly hooked on him forever….!
After all that he started acting distant , and bothered on the phone, naturally…I even told him that my behaviour of frantically trying to reach him could put him at risk in his volatile relationship with his wife, and then promised him I wouldn’t behave that way again! Ever since then, he wasn’t the caring, open, communicative man he always showed me he was, and started acting distant from me..Now he doesn’t leave me any more messages on the computer..He calls me still everyday, but I don’t feel he is interested in me much.. We were even supposed to get together when I got back from vacation that Monday in a hotel, but he told me he was sick., and couldn’t..I even messaged him asking if he wanted to get together on a Friday or Saturday)..he never responded!, which is Very unlike the man I thought I knew)..Yesterday I spoke to him on his new cell phone , and he said maybe we could meet two weeks from now…I started not mentioning any more about him wanting to get together, and will continue not to).
I also confronted him that I saw his name on a dating site we both were on, and he logged in to that site a week ago!..He denies he went in there,saying it was a computer error,that he hasn’t been on that site since he met me, and denies he is looking for somebody else..He still says he loves me, but I don’t believe or trust him any more.. I even told him he could do anything he wants, like see other people,and to at least be honest and tell me he wants to….but he still lies, I feel, saying he’s not looking for anybody else…He knows I don’t believe him much now, though I want to.. and that I’m not acting as happy as before, though I’m trying hard to still be light-hearted as I used to be with him., trying to hide my deep hurt, and disappointment…it’s just that now my love for him is not reciprocated, I feel)..I know, all these desperate actions of mine totally turned him off, and I feel like the relationship is falling apart now..how can it not, after all the mistakes I made pursuing him !
So I ask you now, what action shall I take? Is it possible at all ever to regain his interest in only me, like he used to? Please help! And thank you for taking the time to read this long message..I do (desperately!) hope to hear your wise suggestions..Thank you! …PS ..I haven’t read your book yet, but I plan to!
Andrew writes: You are certainly in a very sad and desperate situation. Your marriage must be in a terrible place if someone can win your heart so easily. I’m also concerned that you do not seem at all worried about how your husband might be feeling. I am sure, he is only too aware of your obsession with another man but for some reason has not challenged you - or perhaps he has and you’ve denied it. Whatever the situation, communication between the two of you is rock bottom.
Before, I go onto give you some advise. Let’s look at the behaviour of your boyfriend. He was determined to win your heart and did everything in his power: lavished compliments, declaring his love on the second date and bombarding you with attention. (It is a heady mixture.) However, the moment that you capitulate, he loses interest. In effect, he is only interested in the chase. Capturing your heart feeds his self-esteem - just like he fed yours with all his adoration - but once he had your heart in the collection, he has won the game and I’m afraid his interest is gone. As you’ve discovered, he is now back on-line finding the next high from doing the same thing to another unfortunate woman.
With you, he’s moved onto his final phase. He’d probably call it ‘let her down gently’ and he will see you from time-to-time so that you don’t rock the boat and tell his wife. To be honest, I don’t see the point of trying to get his interest back. Firstly, he does not sound either pleasant or trustworthy. Secondly, an affair is the worst foundation possible for a long-term committed relationship. Very few people leave their partners, those which do have to deal with the fall-out from unhappy ex-spouses, lost friends and disruptive angry bewildered children. Relationships are hard enough without that toxic burden and all the guilt that comes from breaking up two homes. Thirdly, like attracts like. By this I mean, if you are unhappy and desperate, you meet other people who in a similarly bad or twisted place (as you have found). There is more about this in my next book ‘Single Trap’ which come out in February next year.
So what should you do? I think you should tell your husband just how unhappy you have become. This conversation will also have to involve a confession about the affair. You might get a pleasant surprise and discover that he does really care about you. Alternatively, the two of you might decide to call it a day. Either way, you will be able to make a fresh start and either work on solving the problems in your marriage or be free to truly give your heart to another man.
So please do read my current book - I love you but I’m not in love - it will explain about the different types of love and why love drains out of the relationship. I hope it can be the beginning of a happier and more fulfilling phase in your life.
Hi Andrew,
hope the new book is going well. I’ve read through people in a slightly similar situation to mine but not sure anyone was exactly the same; so I am looking for a little advice on where to go next. What I’ve written is quite long to give you some background, so only read it if you have the time.
I was in a long-distance relationship for four years on/off and have recently come out of it after a fall-out. Here’s the background: we met in an internet chat room when I was 16 (I am now 21). We spoke regularly on-line for a year (internet, phone, video calls). We then met up person and found we got on as well in person as we did over the internet or phone/webcam. A year after we met in person and two years after meeting on-line he moved to the country I live in but not the same city (the gap shortened from 1300 miles apart to 300). We could now see each other once a month or more. We did that for two years, and would spend all the summer months living together. This reinforced what we’d always believed: that we could and should live together permanently.
About four years after we first started chatting on-line we finally moved fully in together. The moving in together happened a few months after he cheated, and the condition of us getting back together was that he moved in with me so we could give the whole relationship a proper “go”. It was meant as a test of our relationship, to see if it was going to work and if he could commit to me. I made sure it was what he wanted and not me forcing it by asking him to do it only if it was what he wanted and what made him happiest. He insisted it was, and that he wanted to make up for the past mistakes he made and the hurt he’d put me through.
Living together lasted only a few weeks (bearing in mind we’d lived together for months during the two previous summers). He told me he wanted to return to his home country and that his mind was already made up (without the option of letting me discuss it). He insisted the reason was because he could work for his parents’ business and didn’t want the hassle of finding a job where I live; even if that meant returning to a distance of 1300 miles between us. He said it had nothing to do with me or the relationship. I made it clear this meant the end of our “relationship” as much as it can be called that; however close we were or often we were in contact, for me the fact it hadn’t worked when crunch time came meant we had different priorities and that I wasn’t the most important thing in his life. I should point out I live in an area of virtually 0% unemployment and work would not have been difficult for him to find. He already had the two years experience of working in Britain so employment should not have been an issue. He simply panicked at the idea of having to find work, when he knew one would be waiting for him if he just went back home. He did not go back home for family or friends: he is not close to his family (says so himself), and has few friends.
After he left I ceased contact with him. After a month or so he tried to get back in touch saying he was depressed and had made the wrong decision about leaving me, that he missed me. But I ignored all the messages. I thought ignoring him was the best way for me to forget, move on, and eventually meet someone new when the time was right. I was also angry and wanted him to see that he didn’t deserve my attention. Before he left I had said I wouldn’t stop him, that I wanted him to do what made him feel most happy and if living away from me was what he wanted he should do it – I made it clear it was against what I wanted but that it wasn’t for me to put what I wanted in his way. So after he left I ignored any messages he sent. I wanted him to give his new life back home a proper go, and my silence would hopefully let him move on and make his new start back home work out.
Four months after he moved out he sent a message to my phone saying “I want to come back to you if you let me”. That was all. He refused to talk about it in more detail unless I met him in person, which I did September this year. I debated meeting him because I knew it might revert to how things were before (i.e. the long distance relationship), and I didn’t want that. In the end I decided I should meet him and hear what he had to say at least. When we met though, I found him even colder to me than ever before. (When I say “cold”, I am not alone. This man will not hug his mother, who calls him cold, and his colleagues at work apparently call him “Mr Ice” for his lack of emotional/personal side). So we spent some time together but reached no solution on how to make us both happy. In the end we agreed we could never suit what both of us wanted; and I left.
Since then, I have felt a little depressed. Four years of closeness (in mind if not in body) and knowing someone else’s thoughts is hard to come to terms with when it is taken away. Personality profiles say I am good at understanding relationships and that it is a strong part of my personality. But with the person I loved myself I never understood him and how he could change his mind so much. He will say he wants something and seem enthusiastic, then later lose the will, then later on say he never wanted it, then later still say he did want it and now wants it back. It seemed to me we had been through so much and stuck together; why wasn’t it working? Why say one thing to me one day, then a completely different story a week later? Recently he came on-line and spoke to me, told me he was happy with how things now are (i.e. living apart and not speaking to each other), and insisted that he wanted to stop talking to me completely. Told me he would delete me from his phone and make sure we never spoke again. He seemed serious about it and it upset me. The next day he messaged my phone apologising for being so cold (his words, not mine), and asking me to provide “solutions” to our problem. I sent a reply saying that there is no solution until we want the same thing, so why even ask me for it? Why say you want never to speak to someone again, and are happy not seeing them, then the next day apologise and seek to find a way to make the relationship work? It seems complete sea changes of mind over night are not impossible for him.
What I want your advice for is whether this person is worth giving the time of day to. I have always been loyal and supportive, and leant my ear when he needed it. Tried to be understanding. But I felt neglected… he had what he wanted (seeing me when it suited him)… but I never had what I wanted (a relationship with everyday not every second month contact). The one time I put down my foot and insisted we try things together, he agreed, seemed enthusiastic, but when it came down to it he lost energy and gave up – after spending hundreds of pounds transporting all he owned to my house. He later said I had forced him into living together in the first place; a total change of tune to the earlier man keen to make up for his past mistakes and talking about how happy we’d be together. So to then later say I forced it to happen seemed incredulous. Then a month or so after saying I force a relationship on him he says he is depressed, shouldn’t have left me and wants me back. All of this is toying with my mind. Not knowing what he really wants makes it impossible for me to live my life, focus on my education, and absolutely impossible to think of a new relationship when all I keep wondering is when his mood will next swing and things might go in my favour.
I know we love each other on some level. There are things said and done together that make me feel this way. But if you are in love with someone who only needs closeness sometimes, and you yourself need closeness every day, what can you do? Compromise isn’t a solution because I feel I did this for 3 years and gave him his own way for that time. I feel it is time I had the relationship I wanted and which he for years had pretended he wanted too. When asked recently how often he should see me, he said as often as his job and money allow. I don’t feel this is a very heartfelt answer. He says he feels trapped, that I am holding him back (from being sexually promiscuous)… but I have given him the option of not speaking to me and breaking up with me. I tried ignoring him but he persistently kept at trying to speak to me. In his ideal world he could do what he liked, sleep with who he likes, see me when he likes, but I would be loyal. But that isn’t what I want. However, me ignoring him just makes him depressed and so he wants to get back in touch with me. Is there any hope for a relationship like ours or any kind of resolution? I have dated many other men and never felt the same spark and love there was between us from day one. No matter who he is with he says it never felt the same as it does with me. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to find someone new, but I don’t want to throw away someone I still love either. There’s a possibility of me moving to be with him when I graduate from university in June 2009, but I am afraid to do something someone failed to do for me. Do you think it would be a mistake to do it? How should I deal with the period between now and June? What can I do to better understand what he wants, when he keeps changing his mind so often? And if there is no hope for us, how can I get my life back on track and him out of my mind?
Andrew writes: First love is painful, first gay love is doubly difficult. Unlike heterosexual teenagers, who see their love depicted in the movies and pop songs along with a blue print of how to be together, gay teenagers have to work all the rules out for themselves. Throw into this heady mix, that you come from different cultures and the problems of living a long way apart and it is not surprising that you have had more than your fair share of heartache.
So why does he keep changing his mind, this is partly because he’s young too and still working out what he wants but mainly because commitment is scary. (There is more about this is my my forthcoming book ‘The Single Trap: How to escape and find lasting love’ published in February 2009 by Bloomsbury) On one hand, we want to be close to someone - its a basic human need but it is also frightening. Nobody can hurt us like someone who we love and we worry that they will reject us or overwhelm us and take over out life. (Especially if this is what happened when we were young - and gay teenagers can get a lot of rejection from their parents, friends and teachers) As we can’t be both independent and together, many people use a complicated dance where they blow hot and cold. This is how it works…. when he can’t have you he is lonely and pines, he forgets all the problems and thinks only of being back in your arms. So he blows hot. However, once you’re back together - all the old fears return and you’re crowding him or he needs space and guess what he turns cold. Before too long, he’s missing you and the whole dance starts all over.
What can you do about it? Sometimes, once people understand the pattern, they become less extreme. Instead of leaving the relationship, they take the dog for a walk or some other short breathing space. Hopefully, their partner learns to give them a little alone time too and stop worrying this is the end of everything and the temperature overall cools to something that works on a day-to-day basis. However, it sounds like the two of you want quite fundamentally different things. He wants an open relationship and you want a closed one! You should also think how you feel about commitment in general! I know you are going to say: I’m fully committed. However, we are attracted to people for a reason. So why does someone who is unavailable both geographically and emotionally have such a hold?
Going back to our fears of being close, some people become - what I call - over-committed (and responsible for all the closeness in the relationship) and fall for someone who blows hot and cold. This half of the dance is harder to understand. But look back at your life: was your father or mother unavailable? Did you want to get close but they were either absent or pre-occupied with work, a sibling or ill. This can set up patterns which we act out in our adult sexual relationships. Are you secretly afraid of being hurt too? Do you guard against it by choosing people who have one foot in and one foot out of the relationship?
It seems, I’m giving out quite a bit of advice that people are not going to like in this postings….. but rather than wondering about trying to get back with him, I would start learning about yourself and what you need. Good luck and be kind to yourself.
Dear Andrew
I hope that you can offer me some advice. I have come across your book and read it from cover to cover and it has convinced me that my marriage can and should be saved although my wife does not agree. I haven’t shown her the book but perhaps I should? My wife and I have been separated for a year now and although I have moved on with my life I still would hope for reconciliation.
We were married for 25 years and have four grown up children all of whom still live at home with my wife. Our marriage had been a very traditional one with my wife looking after the children and home whilst working part-time with me being the main breadwinner. We had been living parallel but separate lives for several years. During this time I tried to get my wife to spend time with me alone but neither of us really committed to this – we both tried but used our own ‘love languages’ rather than consider what the other would actually like. Spending time away from the home was important to me as I feel that my wife always put the children’s needs first whereas I now appreciate that my wife needs more caring actions. We had both been unhappy in our marriage for several years and believe that I was suffering from ILYB and stupidly had an affair 3 years ago. Once my wife discovered the affair I immediately stopped although have to admit I found it hard to reconnect with my wife as I was upset over the end of the affair.
One year after that I found myself falling in love with my wife again although I was cautious and did not admit my feelings to her. A few months after this she said that the marriage was dead and that she wanted to separate. She felt that it wasn’t the affair itself that was the problem more our reaction to it and that we did not reconnect immediately after. I moved out of the family home. We did try Relate but the sessions focussed on the past and seemed to bring more resentment to the surface making my wife more bitter. We stopped after 6 sessions at the suggestion of the counsellor. My side was that we had to agree that things hadn’t been perfect for a long time, acknowledge that and more on to a new and more rewarding relationship in the future. Our kids are off our hands we should be looking at ways to enjoy the rest of our lives.
One year on neither of us seems any happier and I would like to ask what would be the best way to approach my wife so that we can give ourselves a second chance. Lately she has become less relaxed in my company and is quite hard towards me something she wasn’t when we first separated. She can be a very single minded woman and admitted several months ago that she could be making a mistake but that she would not know that for a couple of years but it would not change her mind. Her words were that she’d made her bed and would lie in it.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and hopefully comment on this letter.
Andrew writes: I am glad that you found my book so useful and thank you for trusting me with your problems.
If you want to reconnect with your wife, you have got to act very quickly. Your wife is in the process of detaching but there is still a glimmer of hope. This hardness, that you describe, could be her building a wall to protect her heart and if it needs protecting that means she still has a few feelings left. So what should you do?
There is nothing more powerful that a heartfelt apology. So write down all the mistakes that you have made over the past few years. Look back at your letter as this will provide a good starting point…. having an affair, not trying hard enough to reconnect afterwards, not telling her that you’d fallen in love with her again (I’m sure you can add more items.) The next step is tell her these face to face. Do not put in any explanations (as this can sound like you are trying to excuse yourself or push blame onto someone else). Just simply state that you are sorry for hurting and messing things up. When you have finished, she may comment and she may not. Whether she is positive or negative, tell her that you would like to try again. Do not try to convince her or argue your case, just leave her to think about it.
I know this is a high risk strategy and opens you up to being rejected. However, you have played all your emotional cards so close to your chest, that your wife does not really know you any more (and I guess that you have changed a lot over the past twenty-five years). This is your chance to reintroduce yourself and let her in our your hopes and fears.
To be honest, she is also unlikely to throw herself into your arms or commit right away. However, a heartfelt apology will open the door to a softening of her heart. If you can cope with her ambivalence, start courting her again. (Send her a card, buy her something nice - but no over the top - for Christmas.) Think out what you can do to make her life easier - like sweeping up the leaves or unblocking the gutters and do it without being asked. Tell her how her new dress suits her. Talk to her about your day-to-day feelings. Send her a text. In other words, act like a loving husband but don’t anything in return.
If she responds, ask what about your behaviour would have to change before she could give her a second chance (and tell her what you need to make it work second time around). At this point, you might like to share my book but at the moment, I think she is probably to closed off to read it.
Remember, the apology must not come with strings or equivocations (and it must come from the heart so only put in it what you truly feel). She could bite your head off, it could be too late but the whole experience will help you learn and move on. But who knows, it could be the start of something beautiful between the two of you. Good luck.
Dear Andrew,
My husband and I have been married for 19 years. We have two children who are 15 and 13. One year ago he confessed to an affair. He said he loved her. She truly made him happy. He thanked me for being the only person who ever truly loved him, and for making him the person he was today, but he had to follow his heart. I told him we were telling the kids that day and that he was moving out. Within 24 hours, he said he broke it off with the other woman and wanted to try again. Everything was lovely for a few months but he refused to go to counselling.
After three months, I noticed odd behaviour patterns and discovered that he was still seeing the other woman. This time i threatened to leave him and take the girls with me. He said he would enter counselling but only on his own. After another three months, he said he didn’t know if he wanted to stay or not. We tried one session of counselling together but he decided that he did not want to be with me. he moved out one year to the day that he threatened to move out on the year before. He left saying that he needed some space and wanted to take time to think. Within 24 hours, after moving out, I discovered the woman leaving the home he rented. He assured me that there was nothing going on and the he just needed support from someone. The other woman is still with her husband and has two young children. He does not want to tell anyone he has had an affair. It’s almost as if he wants to protect her.
He keeps coming back to our home everyday wanting to see the kids and winds up talking to me. He wants to participate in counselling with me but only to talk about issues with the kids. I feel that the only way to get over him is to minimize contact with him. I really don’t believe he ever had any intention of leaving just to think about things. Doesn’t it sound like he just wanted to get out?
Andrew writes: I’m not quite certain what sort of advice that you’re asking for. Do you want permission to stop seeing him for a while, so that you can begin to move from wife to co-parent? Are you asking me to explain his behaviour over the past year? Do you want me to confirm your diagnosis that he is a sneaky lying bastard? Or are you asking if there is still any hope for this relationship? To be frank, it could be any one of these or most probably, a combination of all of them. If you’re giving a confusing message to me, what is your husband hearing?
Before you can make any progress, I think you need to do something with that anger. Use your counselling to not only explore all the things that he has done which makes you angry, but all the anger that you have with yourself for not spotting the danger signs. I would also use the time to look at your contribution to the break down in communication which makes it impossible for the two of you to have a truthful conversation and solve your differences. Stepping away from the infidelity, do you have a temper? Do you act first and think second? (All this ‘we’ve got to tell the children today’ and ‘I’m leaving now’ - is the reason why I ask?)
I know it seems cruel to look at your behaviour - while he has been the one betraying you. However, obsessing about his bad behaviour - and ignoring your own contribution - just leaves you impotent and waiting for him to make his mind up. Looking at yourself, learning and growing will not only help you recover your dignity but help you come out of this whole fiasco stronger and wiser.
Hopefully, by the end of counselling, you will have a better sense of who you are, what you want and the ability to talk to your husband, so that together you can find a way forward either as co-parents or lovers. At the moment, that does not seem possible. Good luck and forgive me for being blunt.
Dear Andrew,
My wife and I have been married for 9 years and have two lovely boys 4 and 5 years old. Throughout the period of our marriage we have both had very demanding and at times stressful jobs. Our relationship to the outside would seem to be perfect, model couple, successful, nice house, balanced family. We have never really argued however my wife has confessed she has not been happy for some time and that she has bottled things up and pushed them down rather than get in to any conflict
Around the middle of last year my wife expressed the ILYB statement to me which I have to admit at the time was a shock but I didn’t really understand what it all meant. My wife explained that she loved me dearly as a best friend but was no longer sexually attracted to me. This is when we together decided to embark on the counselling yet nothing really came of it on that occasion
We discussed all the areas of discontentment sharing more of the house work, boys care and the support of each other. I also agreed to not put my wife under any pressure to have sex however although we cuddle up in bed sex is now a thing of the past and she now even says that she feels uncomfortable with me touching her.
A few months ago my wife suggested we should have a separation as she feels trapped, she continues to tell me there is no spark for her between us and despite buying and reading your book which we agreed was a real eye opener feels it would be pointless to work on it together. I have asked we go for more counselling however she still refuses stating she is sure about her feelings.
We are now at a real crisis point my wife has started looking at other houses and believing this is the only option. I really do not want to loose my wife and disturb the boys yet I do not know what to do. Are we passed the point of no return and must I let go and stop trying to hang on?
Many thanks
Andrew writes: It is very hard to get a full picture from just a few lines, so if I have leapt to the wrong conclusion, please forgive me…..
When I first started counselling couples almost twenty five years ago, a large part of my work was helping women stand-up to overbearing men. I still get a few but today I am much more likely to be prompting men to ‘fight their corner’ in the counselling room. It seems that many men are just too nice and too considerate to say: ‘Enough is enough, I have an opinion too’, they just sit there meekly. In the meantime, the woman continues to complain and cajole. The man gets more anxious to please and more dejected or frantic (depending on his personality) Worse still, this does not make the woman feel any better or any less disappointed either. From your recap of your counselling sessions, it sounds like the work was very unbalanced. You agreed to work more round the house, do more child care and give up sex! What do you ask for yourself? It sounds like nothing at all.
The next part of my response will sound strange but be patient. My next book is called the ‘Single Trap How to escape
and find lasting love’. For it, I interviewed both single women and single men. The women were curious about why any man, who wanted to settle down, should have trouble finding a partner. What was wrong with them? They wanted to know. Nothing, I replied, they are all nice guys. The sneers that I got made me realise that men can be too NICE. It’s not that women want bastards but there is a moment when ‘anything you want’ and running round in circles means that men become so wet and so unmanly, that there are no longer sexy or desirable. Could this be the problem in your marriage? You have been so determined to save your marriage that your wife has effectively walked all over you?
So what do you do? I’m not suggesting that you come across all caveman but please do stand up for yourself. In effect, be assertive. (There is a big difference between this and bullying or being aggressive). Try reading some books on the subject - but be quick. You are really in last-chance salon.
Dear Andrew,
I would really appreciate your advice. We have been married for 19 years and been together since we were 19. Together we have three beautiful children 10, 7 and 5.
About six months ago, I found my husband in great distress and tears. He confessed that he couldn’t go on any longer and could no longer pretend at being a husband and a father, doing so has made him very ill. He was obviously in great pain and depression. He said that he didn’t love me and hadn’t loved me for years. He claimed that he didn’t want to get married or to have children. He told me that he is desperate to find somebody that he could shower love and affection on, so that the hole inside him could be filled and his joy of life return.
He went to live 5 hours away (he had been working away during the week for the previous year) and has come home every two weeks to see the kids at the weekend. I insisted that he sees a therapist who could help him see if there was any future for our relationship, (maybe he could discover that I am the person that he is looking for). Working with the counsellor has enabled him to free himself from the anger he felt towards me.
Historically, I have been very overweight, which we both have not been happy about. I have constantly tried, promised and failed to lose weight. The consequences being that I have broken his heart. He pushed his unhappy feelings under and began to pretend, believing that he had to endure his life and could expect nothing better. 6 months ago we came to the end of the line. Interestingly it occurred at a point where I have lost most of my extra weight and although it will be a life long battle - it is one that I seem to be winning. Further background is that 12 years ago we emigrated and I have found this extremely difficult. We were supposed to be here for two years but got stuck. We have had a lot of bad luck with illness, bereavement and financial crisis.
He no longer sees his therapist, once the anger was released he stopped going. He says that he is willing to try things to see if he can love me but is unwilling to try anything from your book. He said he would like to start again and try going out on a date but he never became inspired to ask me. So, tired of waiting, I suggested a date. We went but he said that he didn’t feel anything for me. He then warmed to the idea of marriage guidance therapy (which he has been against) but doesn’t want to rake up the past and sit in a room with me “bitching about each other”. I am searching for a therapist and therapy that fits the bill. He feels that he can’t see how a therapist can rekindle anything if there is no chemistry there. He says that he never loved me and that it was all teenage hormones, guilt, obligation and a feeling that he couldn’t expect more. Now he is unwilling to do anything that might jeopardize his happiness.
I am suspicious that he is suffering from depression. He lives a life that is very closed. He works from home, has no friends, he talks to the children for 30 minutes every night. He has become more interested in his looks and has lost weight. Although he is beginning to be more available to the children, he doesn’t ask about them or help me to parent them really. Obviously he never asks how I am or how I am coping. He cannot complement me on my weight loss.
My approach has been one of giving him patience,space and expressing my appreciation. I can see that some small improvements have been made and I still have a little energy for that strategy, but…., I just want to hear what you think and how I should continue. Although I haven’t mentioned my feelings, please understand that I adore my husband and long to create a new, different loving relationship with him, for both our sakes and our children.
Thank you
Andrew writes: Your husband seems to be behaving like a teenager. He is sulky and uncommunicative. He doesn’t want to parent your children and is too selfish to even complement you on your weight loss (Well done by the way.) Whatever you do, don’t even whisper the words to him (because it will put his back up) but it sounds like a mid-life crisis!
There is something about reaching forty - and bereavement increases it - to make us take stock and ask how to best use the second half of our life. It can be very positive and life enhancing. However, it can make us regret the choices that we made and wonder how life would have been. In your husband’s case, he wants to be young, free and single again. And how nice, he’s left you holding three young children. Worse still, he blames you for the choices that he made!
So what should you do? Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions but I can make some suggestions. While you are looking for a therapist, look for someone who not only does couple work but also TA (Transactional Analysis). The basic idea is that we have three parts to our personality PARENT, ADULT and CHILD and they talk to the corresponding part of our partner. I must stress that all of these parts of our personality are valid and useful. The PARENT looks after our partner and the CHILD can be playful, creative and fun. However, we can get stuck in unhelpful transactions, most noticeably CRITICAL PARENT to REBELLIOUS CHILD. (This is just the tip of a complex idea, so look at the books of Eric Berne - particularly ‘I’m Okay, You’re Okay’ and ‘Games People Play’) When your husband behaves like an irresponsible child, it is tempting to become critical and judgemental and what he’s probably call ‘talking down’ or ‘nagging’. Instead, try and approach it as a rational adult: ‘We have a problem over X, how can we solve it’. Miracle of miracles, he will respond as an ADULT too.
As well as being patient and listening to his woes, I would let him know about your own desires, aspirations and ambitions. Try and make this a search for both of your contentment, rather than just about his ‘falling out of love’. There is nothing sexier than a shared ambition. Good luck with finding it.
Dear Andrew,
Six months ago my husband gave me the ILYB speech, followed a few days later with the admission of an affair with a married woman at work. He promised it was over, but needed some space. I’d bought your book so agreed to a trial separation. He was away about 4 months, and during this time he visited me and the children about three times a week, and we also went on a few dates. Sometimes he would be distant, or tearful, and a couple of times said it was over. He had said we were still married, still working to get back together, and on no account could see other people. Sometimes I got suspicious and asked him if he was seeing her again, after all, we were living apart, what was to stop him. He would say it sounded like I was trying to push him into her arms. He vehemently denied seeing her, and would get quite angry. He said he was having a nervous breakdown.
I followed the advice in the book, got on with my life, was warm and welcoming, and we started Relate counselling. Through all this time, I could never understand why his feelings for the other woman didn’t fade, and if they loved each other so much why they didn’t get together. Our counsellor would ask if he had closed the door on her, and he would swear that he had. 2 months ago he came home, and we had lots of talks and I asked him if there was anything I should know. It was difficult at first, but I learnt through counselling that moving forward was enough for now, and things really started to improve.
Than last week his lover phoned me with the “you have a right to know” speech. They had carried on the affair until he came home. She begged me to let her have him, as she has left her own husband for him. My husband and I argued for hours, but he said nothing’s been going on since he got home so what’s the big deal? For about 3 days she pestered me with calls and texts, and said he’d ruined her life. He would tell her it was over, and she’d ring back and accuse me of forcing him to say that!
She came to our house when I was out and our young children had to see my husband and her arguing outside. She stormed off, he rang her to see if she was ok, so she threatened suicide. He got a neighbour in for the children and sped off after her. The next day he finished it again, but that evening she called again, and threatened to come over. I called her, lost it and screamed at her. My husband called me a bitch. Eventually his lover and I texted each other that we’d both been lied to, and it wasn’t worth fighting over. He just sat in an armchair and moaned how stressed he was. Then he told me I should’ve let him finish it the way he wanted. So he phoned her back again and sat apologising to her for half an hour.
He is still living here. I feel so betrayed. I took everything we learnt in counselling, and your book, changed some of my behaviours and accepted my share of responsibility. He had no need to lie when he was away. He still loves her, and has never apologised to me. I have begun to hate him, I’m so angry, I was a fool to trust him. I’ve told him I am exhausted and need him to do something for me now, but he says he’s not sure if he can. I do go on ranting about it all the time but I can’t help it, he just sits there looking helpless while I try and make it work by myself. It seems hopeless, and he won’t go to counselling any more. I don’t see if we can ever get over this, but I had 16 lovely years with him. Can I ever trust him again. Thank you.
Andrew writes: I’ll start with the good news first. You will reach the point where you will trust will again. The bad news - it will take a lot of work and not just from you but from your husband too. So how do you make a start from what is, after all, an abysmal starting point? You are completely and utterly exhausted, so I think that you need a little bit of time away. Go and visit a friend from the other side of the country or book yourself into a spa for the weekend - anything to get away and unwind. It will allow you to recoup and get a little more balanced.
When you return, please give up on the ranting. It will not make you feel any better. It will just pump up your anger and his guilt - not a good combination for rebuilding your marriage. Someone needs to make the first move - and as it is you writing not him, it will probably be you. In order to detoxify the atmosphere in your house - which must be horrible - apologise for your behaviour (for example the screaming and other undignified behaviour towards the other woman). This will open the door for him to apologise for the bits that he is ashamed about (probably an awful lot). If this seems impossible, don’t worry. Time away will help and if you are still stuck in Mrs Angry mode, try this exercise: Every morning take five minutes to write out all your feelings - even if they are ‘I’m angry, angry, angry’. Afterwards shred them up and repeat the next day. Slowly, the feelings will become more nuanced. Although we think it’s good to talk and get our feelings out, there comes a point where it becomes abusive towards our partners and that is not acceptable. Have you crossed this line?
When you are both talking more constructively, you need to understand why your marriage went off the rails and how to stop it happening again. This will take time and effort and you might need some help. I would contact your original counsellor and even if he will not go with you, start up sessions again. My guess is that with the general atmosphere improving, he will believe that counselling could be positive (and not just another opportunity to rant) and will eventually agree to attend.
You’ve been through some horrible times but the worst is now behind you. Good luck.
Dear Andrew
Please help.
My husband of 25 years had an affair 1 year ago whilst abroad, but since being in the uk has only text and emailed. He tried to see her twice but she would not see him. He will not leave me until i am financially stable and she wanted him to leave for her, he has been trying to end it because she will not play by his rules.
I found out in Aug and since then he has had no contact as we are trying for a year, but he would like to remain friends with her if poss. He is still madly in love with her and says he finds it difficult at times, but he is getting through it. His feelings change almost daily, and i am exhausted and confused. He says he felt our marriage was over as he had not felt love from me, we have always had problems communicating and my way of caring and showing love he did not understand. He now knows how much i love him and is feeling terrible and a fool. He says that neither relationship is right and maybe he should go on his own, and that he does not envisage being with either of us in the future, as he does not think that i will be able to stand the infidelity and him still loving someone else as well. Depending on the day he says about us buying a house together etc as he thinks a change of environment will do us good ( we have recently changed careers, lost our business, lost sold our house, had to, and he lost both of his parents.) Then he says he does not think it is going to work with us, he would like it to, but he does not know and that it will be tragic. I am trying to be positive and address a lot of his complaints , not independent enough, no confidence, my weight, how i look etc ( you get the picture, the other woman is the opposite, high flying city career). I have always been a housewife and worked in our own business, which is exactly how he wanted it, I was always trying to get a job, go to Uni, he was always against it as he needed me in the business.
Now he wants the total opposite he wants me to go out a find the real me that he has smothered, because he says i am unstimulating and the real me he may be able to love. Before i found out about the affair he slept separately but now sleeps with me. Last week he has spent every night cuddling and cares caressing me, no sex, and says he does not know if we can make it and that he should probably make a decissun to stay or go as it is so upsetting for me, although we have agreed to try for a year or so. He said that he had felt a small glimmer or stirring of emotion for me after the confession and we had talked and talked and made love and that he thought we had a chance of staying together. Now he seems to have back peddled emotionally and says he does not know. He has had a very bad childhood, with his mother going into a mental institution and a bad relationship with his father. He is very independant and will not consider counselling saying things will be what will be. I feel he is depressed and grieving plus going through a mid life episode, acting like a teenager, not doing anything around the house anymore and crying about his affair.
I am reading you book about crisis point and coping day to day, please could you advise any other parts that could help me show my love without being clingy or desperate. He is very insecure and has always complaned about feeling unloved no matter what i do. How do you act appropriatly, I do not want him to leave. He has said things like he did not think i loved him as much as I think by how I have acted, I said I was in shock and then we had an arguement to clear that up, then he said I was trying to guilt him and if I could not get over the affair it was over. He says I am being offish by not cuddling him in bed, holding hands and that i have not been sympathetic to all that is happening to him and that it is very traumatic to him!
I know he is an egotistical idiot but I still want to keep him if I can. Should I make the first move even though he sometimes pulls away? I do not want to pressure him but he says i should act how I feel and that he will tell me if it is too much. What do you think? He wants me to show love but does not want to be pressured or guilted.He does not want to talk about the affair as though it has never happened, and is acting normally.
I had said at the beginning that if he needed to leave for her he should and see what happens, he said no because I would not have him back (why does he care? he says the only true thing is he is not in love with me but cares for me deeply).He is only staying for financial reasons, will not leave for the same reason ( and that would be the end ). I think he feels guilty as I have no job or friends as we have moved to a new area. A lot of this is excuses as we are not poor and if he wanted to leave he could afford it.
He has started paying me compliments as I have lost 2 stone and look better and that he is proud of what i have achieved this year ( I am an artist and have started to exhibit and sell ) He is obsessed about me doing well, i think so he can leave sooner.
He has said that i could do better as he has not made me happy. It is like he is playing a wait and see game, if I will change into the person he would like me to be, if i can fit into his new flashy world.He knows that the other relationship is no good as they have absolutely nothing in common and he can see this although he is madly in love, and with me we have lots but does not like all my personality traits, he is very go ahead, I am more laid back. He has been saying that we should only stay together because we both want to,for love not obligation, and that he wants no wedding rings said it made him feel awful, then the next day said when I was slim enough to get my ring on again I could be his wife again. He is now saying that I am very pretty and that I could get anyone I wanted and that I should get a younger man that could satisfy me, he’s 55yrs and has the occasional erectile dysfunction but other than that we have great sex just not emotionally close. His affair is emotional and they only had sex twice which he said was awful( too much detail).
He wants us to see less of each other and to make our time together special,go out on dates etc. This is difficult as I work from home and he is at home studying at the moment. He is very busy trying to get his career going and is not really trying, we have only been out for a few lunches and trips to the coast, but I try to hold hands whilst watching tv etc. Any suggestions as living in the same house is not trying, and overly romantic meals even at home seem inappropriate when he is feeling like he does, he will not dance with me for example and still seems distant. He does let me kiss him passionately when we are having sex and occasionally we make love, although he keeps his eyes shut. We do not argue that much and i do not feel things are progressing, although i am making a point of standing up for myself and always having an opinion etc.
Is there anything from your book you can suggest to help the passion back, or do we just have to let this affair run its course in his heart? I cannot seem to get in there at the moment, which is tragic as i feel icould get him back if his heart was open to it.
Please help as i am so confused.
Thanks
Andrew writes: There is so much loss and pain in your letter, that is hard to know where to start. So I will share my over-all feeling and then try and make some suggestions. Firstly, your husband is in a lot of pain. He has lost his business and your home - crippling to self-esteem. Especially, as it seems from your letter, that he is a proud self-sufficient man. Add to this, he had the most terrible childhood. There is nothing worse for a child’s self worth and feeling of security than a mother who is mentally ill - especially if it got so bad that she was taken away. Add to this that his father was distant. This must have been a very frightened little boy. Now they have both died and the chance to repair everything is lost forever. In his pain, he seems to be hitting out at everything - he has said some truly horrible things to you and betrayed your trust with an affair.
Of the two of you, you sound the stronger half of the relationship and my guess is that you have been his rock. However, you are hurting terribly too from his affair. You desperately need him to give you some glimmer of hope, so that you can keep fighting. I wish that you were both in counselling, so that a therapist could support you both.
So what should you do? Firstly, try and get him to go to RELATE so you can both look at how you got to this point and how to move forward. If this is not going to be, you are going to have to be incredibly strong. The question is this: do you have enough resources to heal yourself? The reason I ask this question is that it seems you are waiting for him to give you a sign. At this point, you will throw yourself whole-heartedly into saving this relationship. However, trying to second-guess your husband is impossible. He is hurting so much (and the broken affair is just a flea bite on the surface of a whole mountain of loss) that he will ebb and flow and will not be consistent. He is like a little boy who needs a great big hug and told it will be okay. Hard, I know, when he has hurt you so much.
So here is what I think….. If you want to save this marriage, and there is every reason to walk away, you should ‘act as if’. (This is one of the exercises in my next book, the Single Trap, which is out in February next year). Imagine that he has said: ‘I made a big mistake. I no longer love that woman. It is you and only you that I love.’ How would you act? What would you do? Now ‘act as if’, he has….. It will be hard. (But I think he has already voted for you with his feet but is scared of saying the above in case he cannot deliver.) So keep on behaving ‘as if’ and you will feel more settled - rather than blow about and confused by his moods - and he will slowly but surely respond.
Finally, I want to congratulate you on the success of your art. It sounds like the bright spot in a bleak letter. I guess this creativity has probably pulled you through and kept your sanity together. So I would recommend a book, it is called the Artist’s Way and is by Julia Cameron. It is full of exercises to feed your creative spirit but I think it will also feed your resolve to keep going.
Dear Andrew,
My boyfriend and I have been together on and off for the last 6 years. In one of our “off stages” he moved to another city for a wonderful job opportunity. We have always cared very deeply for each other, and recently decided that I would move cities so we could live together again, and make a commitment to having a life together.
I moved cities, and found myself incredibly miserable. Business was slow, I felt lethargic and bored with no friends and no support system. On top of this all, my boyfriend seemed to not be “present” in our relationship. He barely saw me or heard what I had to say (no matter how important). We decided to see a therapist and the feedback was very similar to what I had said re things like his lack of commitment (and the emotional and non-verbal demonstration of it). I was finding things very difficult - a relationship that made me feeling “irrelevant”, a city that I did not adapt well to, and a job that was driving me up the wall. Unfortunately, my boyfriend was not prepared to move back (very much an uncompromising attitude) so we decided to split. A couple days later, he said that he wanted to be with me, and had asked his company for a transfer and been granted it. We could go back together! However, literally another couple days later he admitted to me that he loved me but was not in love with me. I was devastated but tried to give support. He even bought your book, which he is now in the process of reading. I am hoping to read it after him.
He still says he wants to stay together, but I find myself not trusting a word comes out his mouth. Every time he says something, I wonder what bombshell he is going to drop next. I feel like such a fool for putting my life on the line for him, only to have him mess me around. Yet, I know I love him. I vacillate between being supportive and feeling furious and rejected.
Please assist? I am hoping you can show a insight into the other side - the side that has to deal with the person they love and are committed to stating they are no longer in love with you, but would like to stay together. What is wrong with me? Should I leave and simply save him the hassle of breaking my heart again at a later stage?
Andrew writes: This certainly has been an on/off relationship! When he can’t have you, he desperately wants you and invites you to come and live with him on the other side of the world. When you arrive, he’s not interested. Just at the moment, you’re all packed and ready to go home. Guess what? Suddenly, you’ve become popular again. So what’s happening?
This is a little complicated, so be patient with me. Although we all long for a close and loving relationship, we are also terrified at the very same time. As you’ve discovered, nobody can hurt us or betray us more than someone we love. The other fear is that the other person will swamp us and take away our identity. Whatever the fear, it can be so strong that we want to keep the other person at arm’s length. Except if they get too far away, we feel alone and abandoned and want them back! So how do we reconcile our deep-seated need for a relationship and our fears? There are two ways. Either we fall for someone who is not available - and therefore can never commit - see the next letter down on Ask Andrew or we indulge in a complicated dance like yours where you swing between togetherness and being apart. I call this ‘Blowing Hot and Cold’ (There is a lot about this phenomena in my next book ‘SINGLE TRAP’ which is out in February)
At this point, it would be very easy for you to blame your partner for being commitment phobic. However, first read the section in my current book where I talk about problems being ‘Six of One and Half a Dozen of the other’. (It is in Chapter Three.) You need to ask yourself about your own fears about commitment: why have you stayed with someone who is not wholly ready for a relationship. What issues and events from your past have made you wary of commitment too?
So what next? When you have both read my book, you need to use it as spring-board to discuss how you got to this point, your fears and your hopes for the future and how you can find a way forward together. If the discussion goes well and you think that you can work together to tackle both of your fears, this could be just the break-through you need. If, however, you just end up blaming each other, it is possible you do not have the energy or the desire for tackling this deep-seated problem. Back to you!
Dear Andrew,
After three years together, my girlfriend broke up with me four months ago.
Initially we were very much in love with each other. It felt right from the first moment. We both felt like we had never felt anything like this before (I was mid-30s she was mid-20s, so we weren’t naive teenagers). We both knew we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with each other. She made the first move(s) and she was the first to say “I love you” (although I already knew I loved her by then) so I know it was mutual. We talked about marriage and kids and our life together.
But there had always been a couple of issues: her family would have been very against the relationship for religious reasons (so we kept it a secret from them - and from almost everyone else); and when we met I was still in a loveless relationship with someone else.
I probably took too long to resolve the latter situation. But my girlfriend never pressured me to do so. In fact, it almost seemed that the more I did so, the more my girlfriend pulled away…
We initially broke up about a year ago, as she couldn’t see a way to overcome the religious differences. But we still loved each other, so we talked about this in depth. We thought we had found a way forwards on this issue so we got back together.
But we still had a bumpy ride. My dad had died while we’d been broken up, and once we were back together I fell out with my best friend. This things weighed heavily on me and made me less fun to be with. My girlfriend and I didn’t get to see each other as much as I’d have liked (mainly because of her family commitments) and when we did we’d either end up talking about the religious issues or my so-called friends. So there was little joy in the relationship. And we hadn’t been intimate for months (mainly because of a lack of opportunity).
But I still loved her. I occasionally thought about breaking up with her, as I didn’t think she put enough effort into the relationship. But I knew I never could.
We celebrated her birthday (and didn’t let other issues get in the way). And everything seemed fine. She was going to take some time off work to spend with me. And we were planning a holiday together.
We didn’t see much of each other for a couple of weeks (partly because of her family commitments and partly because she was ill one weekend). When we finally met up, she said it didn’t feel right any more, and she broke up with me.
We met up a couple more times over the next few days, and she said her feelings had changed, that she loved me like a friend. She wanted to see what (i.e. who) else was out there, and to find someone of her own religion. I asked if it would help if I converted to her religion, but she said that it wouldn’t.
We didn’t talk for a fortnight then I called her and told her what I thought I’d done wrong - not dealing with my issues (my old relationship and my so-called friends) quickly enough, and focusing on issues (such as the religious differences) so much that I’d lost sight of the big picture (i.e. the overall relationship). I told her things would be different but, while she was friendly, she said she didn’t want me to convince her. I suspected there may be someone else (a male friend of hers who had recently become single) but she effectively denied it.
All the advice I’d seen at the time suggested establishing a “no contact” rule, so I asked her not to contact me unless she wanted to get back together. She agreed.
Now four months later, I’ve decided this isn’t working and have sent her a couple of friendly texts. She has replied to them both, but I’d probably say that she has been polite rather than friendly.
I still love her more than anything, and feel wretched without her. I’ve been seeing a psychotherapist for about the past three years too, but it doesn’t seem to be helping. I would do almost anything for her - and for us to be together. I just can’t understand how things changed so quickly - and how she didn’t give me a chance to put things right. She seemed to fall out of love with me in a matter of weeks, while I’ve failed to do so in the past four months. I always feared that religious differences may drive us apart, but couldn’t have ever imagined her simply not loving me any more.
I’ve started reading your book, but it seems to be primarily for individuals who want to prevent this situation arising, and for couples where both partners want to work at the relationship.
What advice can you give to someone if their (former) partner has effectively said “I love you but I’m not in love with you” and doesn’t want to work at the relationship? I don’t think think I’ll persuade her with words, but need action (I think that part of our problem was that we talked about our issues for hours but actually did little about them).
I hope you can help as I’m lost without her.
Andrew writes: I am not surprised that this has been a difficult and painful relationship. I have to be honest, secrecy is not a good foundation for a long-term relationship. It seems that neither of you were completely free to give your hearts. You were already in a committed relationship (even if it was loveless) and her commitment to her family means that she can not marry someone from a different faith. Fortunately, you are now free to offer your heart (unreservedly) but she is just as committed as before. Unfortunately, it takes two people to make a relationship. As you say, words will not change this situation, and if conversion is not an option, neither will actions.
So, I have to agree that the ‘no contact’ policy is best for both of you. Of course it is painful, but all that sending a few texts will achieve is pumping up your hope (only to have it dashed a few hours, days or weeks later). Trying to find some ‘magic formula’ to get you back together just keeps the hope alive too. The best way forward is to give yourself a little tough love. Don’t indulge yourself by playing ‘your song’ or re-reading her old texts. Put away the majority of the photos and don’t succumb to ‘romantic’ but ultimately self-harming rituals like kissing her picture before going to bed. If you find yourself day dreaming about how it could be ‘if only’ put up a mental STOP sign and distract yourself by watching TV or going for a run. There will slip ups and you will get yourself into a down patch, but if you follow these extinguish methods they will get fewer and less deep.
I know this is not the answer that you wanted to read but ultimately it is only way that both of you can be happy and fulfilled.
Dear Andrew,
I would really appreciate some professional help !
After 5 years together and an engagement, my fiancé and I broke up because I confessed I foolishly had an affair. The affair was, I now understand, a response to problems from both sides in the relationship and certainly not thrill-seeking or an exit strategy but a call for help.
My ex Fiance and I are both bright, professional people with intelligence to understand and reason, and most of all we still love each other. When we first broke up, I laid all my cards on the table with him about how the affair was a terrible error and wake up call for change, how much I love him and how he is THE ONE for me. He left me, but I pushed him too it with the affair, but I now know this was through fear and resentment and as soon as we split up I did everything to explain this and show my remorse, sorrow, and total regret and willingness to do everything and everything to get back. After a couple of months apart, I received a very emotional contact from him and we had some tentative meet-ups. Since then, I’ve done a mixture of grand gestures, nice dates, showing patience and taking it easy with him. I have also explained how I felt and I think I have got most of the message across that the affair was a terrible error/symptom and not a simple thrill.
The problem is that after 8 months of being split up, within which months of dating and I mean lovely dates - I did a surprise trip to New York and I am not that flash for cash having had to set up a new flat in London on my own, we’ve been for great meals, shows, romantic walks, I have learnt to cook some lovely dishes he loves, days out, galleries, London sights etc etc - love and effort from both sides, nothing is moving from this place.
We are like a half couple, doing all the above, we hold hands and peck on the cheek and even though I have tried to be so patient and empathise with how hard it must be for him I am finding it so hard as we are in our late 30’s and were going to be married and I am in this half pals-brother-sister-relationship with the man I wish to spend my life with. We stay over in the same bed but just drop off to sleep, I always make an effort to look attractive and people on two occasions have said to him he has a lovely looking woman on his arm. I did not want to be too sensual because of the affair, it did not feel appropriate but I worry I am just turning into a friend to him and no more. I tried to speak about the future, we set a whole weekend aside to talk about what really happened and why and had many moment where our hearts could have got to a deeper level through total emotional honesty but he won’t even budge a millimetre and meet me half way. He said he loved me and loved spending time with me but I can see he seems stuck about reconciling and I feel like it needs a kick start or something, but it is hard for me to do this as the affair shocked him. I don’t really want to play games like that as he is a hurt and delicate man and it is not cool but I know him so well he will bumble on for ever that I need affect a change drastically.
I have read your “I love you but…” from cover to cover TWICE and it was the flip flop that I think got us back in contact in the first place, I have tried his love language, rebonding, reblending - everything. I have suggested weekend away, one night away, holiday, counselling but all we do is date like teenagers, which was beautiful and apt at the start and I tried and succeeded to enjoy living in the moment but as I say I fear turning into just friends.
He sees me and we have an amazing time, when it is convenient to him. We will spend a whole weekend together and then if he has a party with friends, he just goes without me. It is like I am banished from his life but he has a girl who will adore him and give him all the perks of a girlfriend when we wants it. So my logical head says back off as he is having his cake and eating it and that is a little bit of the problem we had before but then my heart says because I betrayed him it is consistency and persistence I need to show and not drastic actions.
This is the man I want to spend my life with - please help me through this delicate stage.
PS. I just wanted to add to the post above. I do listen as well. Also, if we have said we will do x or y I always ask how he would like to approach x or y or wait for him to make an idea first but I guess it would still be true to say I am the more proactive one of the two of us character-wise (in life, work as well). When I re-read the post it could sound like I just talk at him and I know I used to do natter more (and I realise perceptions take a long time to change!) but I do listen more and do active listening ….Apologies to add a PS but I wished to add this for completeness as I realise it is key in ones approach so you know I am doing this !
Andrew writes: I am glad that my book has helped you get this far, but it seems that you have got stuck somewhere along the recovery process after your affair. I know that you have explained why it happened and apologised a million times, but he is still hurting and under all the ‘happy friends’ exterior is someone who is still incredibly angry.
So what should you do? First, look through the rest of these posts on ‘Ask Andrew’ a lot of them are from people whose partner’s have been unfaithful. There is one come thread that runs through them all: rage! One of my clients, the other day, described it is like a huge knot in their throat and stomach which is there all the time - even when her mind is occupied with something else at work. Until you boyfriend can begin to express and release some of this anger, he is literally blocked.
I’m not suggesting that you make him deliberately angry, but instead of tiptoeing round issues or changing the subject when things get tough - let them go to their natural conclusion. Fan rather than put out the flames. Alternatively, give him permission to be angry. Tell him that you know that he is hurting and that he does not need to hide it.
If all this fails, I would tell him about your frustration about being half-a-girlfriend. My guess is that his counter resentments will keep pouring out. A good argument will clear the air, show what work needs to be done and ultimately being more bonding than a weekend away.
Dear Andrew,
I would like some advice about my relationship with my husband. We have been together for about 14 years we have 3 young children. We have 2 problems - one is that quite early on in our relationship our sex life took a nose dive when we realised he had warts (we were both a little young and naive). I treated mine straight away but he did not do anything for about 6 months. It has been a reoccurring problems and although he feels guilty he does not sort it out very quickly.
We had children and thought that each time the process would kick start our love life but it did not happen and as i always fell pregnant quite quickly sex then tailed off as neither of us wanted to do it whilst i was pregnant and it did not resume afterwards. It has become easier not to do it. We are both tired, stressed (he has a very stressful job but we are looking into moving and him changing his job and hopefully our quality of life - I know his job has not helped our situation either) and I don’t even like to go near him for a cuddle because I do not want to be ‘felt up’ or have to french kiss - sometimes i just wanted a cuddle.
The other issue is drinking. He drinks heavily which has become a huge issue and has affected every part of our life. Whenever he approached me he was always drunk and although I did have sex on several occasions it was not nice and I was blamed if he was unable to finish. I then stopped altogether because it effected my self esteem and I felt it may stop him drinking - it did not. We have not had sex for about 2 years (9 months of which I was pregnant). I felt that the only way I could cope was to detach myself and concentrate on the children and living my life. The drinking issue reached a point whereby I was looking for a way out but when not drinking things are generally fine. The children are happy and although they know we argue they would be badly effected by a split. My husband has now asked for help and is waiting for a counselling appointment. In the meantime we are trying to change his drinking habits for a start but I am hoping that the counselling will change his mind set. That he will see more clearly what he is doing and that he will be able to control his drinking. I feel that only once this is achieved that we can start to build our relationship again. ( I am aware that this may not happen and have had to think about what happens if he does not change)
At this point I feel that I have lost a lot of respect for him, he has lied to me about the drinking so I have lost trust. Due to the children our lives have meant we do nothing, go nowhere and have no time on our own. We know this is important but is also difficult. He does not find me very attractive due to the fact that I have put on weight since having the children and my stomach is not one of my more attractive features. I see him looking at my stomach with a look of disgust. I do not want him seeing me naked. Having said all this we do want our marriage to work, we do want to have a better relationship.
My family think that we have nothing in common but we never really have the chance to do anything together except maybe go out to dinner occasionally but then we worry about the expense! We want some help - I know that it is not all one sided and I want to change also, to feel differently and to be more relaxed about physical contact - at the moment it makes me feel tense. I feel that I have supported him as much as I can we are both miserable and want our lives to change.
Can your book help us?
Andrew writes: I think every couple with small children go through something very similar. It is not just the sheer exhaustion but for the first eighteen months after birth, few women feel spontaneously horny. They need to find other ways from the mundane world of nappies and running after children into the world of intimacy and sex - I call this a bridge to desire - because pure lust will no longer work! So will my book help you? As you are probably going to guess, I’m going to say ‘yes’. I have structured it to help my readers take a long dispassionate look at your relationship, look at what needs to change and which of my various strategies could help you. Most importantly, it will make you believe that change is possible and not as difficult as it seems when you are tired, stressed and down.
There seems to be two separate problems here. The first is your husband’s drinking and it is really good news that he is seeking help. This could really be the key that unlocks all the other changes. I would try and reinforce this impetus by saying something like: ‘I’m aware that I’m going to have to change too to make our relationship better. So let me know what would help you and let’s think about getting help together to sort out our love making.’
The problems you described about being sexually intimate together are incredibly common. It is amazing how many couples are trapped in this ‘all or nothing’ zone where they either have intercourse or don’t touch at all. A candid conversation about your aspirations for better physical intimacy and a more satisfying love life will provide a better understanding of how you both feel (He probably got drunk because he was worried about being turned down and didn’t realise how much of a turn-off being drunk had become) and how to find other bridges to desire. There is quite a lot about this in my book (In Chapter Six: How to boost real intimacy) but the discussions will be easier with a trained counsellor - so look up RELATE in your local phone book.
It does not feel like it at the moment, but with better communication this is not so difficult to fix. Good luck.
Dear Andrew,
We have been married for 28 yrs, my husband 55yrs old ran our own business working 24/7 together as well as building houses. We have had a change in circumstances, business failing, having to sell the house and both of his parents dying. He gone back to being a pilot, and whilst training in the states had an affair, said it was the first time he had felt free, he has a strong work ethic, no hobbies. They have been in contact via email and phone but she will not see him as she wants him to leave me. He said he would not until I was financially secure.
He has been volatile and crying and says he needs to run away from both of us and the kids (grown up ) as he had trouble choosing. He ranted saying the whole marriage had been crap (his words)disappointed in the kids (as were not doing the careers he wanted) and that he had wasted his life paying for us all (I worked with him), I was too fat, no confidence, couldn’t do any thing for myself and was uninteresting and not stimulating.
I had ILYB in April and found out about the affair in Aug. After I found out, we talked more than we have ever done and he realised I loved him. He had thought I didn’t as we were rarely romantic with each other. The day I found out we talked and made love and he said he had felt a connection with me, a tiny stirring and that he had thought there was no hope but now felt we had a chance to get it back. He wants to give it a try for a year or so but not for years as life is too short and he wants to live it. He has stopped contact with her and will not for the time we are trying, but has asked her to remain friend. He doesn’t know if this is posibles and doesn’t know if we can get it back whilst he is in love with her. Can you love two people at once? He says they had an emotional connection and that it was not particularly physical, they slept together twice and it was crap (his words).
I feel their connection is grief as she has had breast cancer and him all the losses I said. He doesn’t understand it himself as she is very manly, not physically attractive, not what he would go for. He seems to love her independence, she is well off and travels the world etc, the total opposite of me. He has been trying to finish it since he has been in the uk, as he knows it wouldnt work, they are so different. I offered for him to go to her (if that would get it out of his system) but he said I wouldnt want him back, and that he would be loosing a lot: she doesn’t cook, etc all the things we’ve always thought important together. He is now being very complimentary and says he wants to fall back in love with me and keep her as a friend. I think he is keeping his options open.
I have not been able to express my anger, as I felt stunned but now I need too. He has always suppressed this in me by getting violent, throwing things etc and then sulking so it never got resolved. He even said he would leave if I got angry! then later apologised for being controlling and for his behaviour, the first time in 28yrs he’s said sorry or been wrong about anything! He is so much nicer but if anything too nice, certainly the passion is not there. He is trying hard but will not go to counselling or read your book as he says he can sort out his own problems.
Its been a year since the affair started and although he loves her deeply, he says the his feelings are diminishing although he still thinks about her a lot and got butterflies when he saw her in March. Do we have a chance whilst he still has feelings for her? How long will this go on? Could counselling help our marriage, if I can only go on my own? One side of the story? How do I raise my self esteem and become more interesting? How can I work on getting the passion back, he rarely wants to go out, and is working most of the time away so hard to do things together, and finally how can I constructively get angry without making it volatile?
Andrew writes: So he can rant at you, insult you and the children (in the most horrible way) but you are not allowed to get angry. If you do, he will leave you! Yet, at the same time, he is allowed to be violent, throw things and sulk. Your letter took my breath away. I really think you should read it again, with fresh eyes, as there seems to be two rules in this household: one for him and one for you.
How can you get constructively angry without making him volatile? I think you have lived for too long trying to second guess his moods and tip toe round them, because this is an impossible request. (No wonder you have low self-esteem, you are trying to pull off the impossible.) I have to tell you that I’m really worried. If someone writes about violence and controlling behaviour, I tend to expect the worst - because victims tend to minimise the seriousness to help them cope on a daily basis. So even admitting it, suggests that it is really serious. That’s why I think that you need professional help and why going to RELATE would be such a good idea - even if it is on your own, as this will help you get a sense of perspective about what’s going on. In an ideal world, he would go with you and work on stopping the violence. (You, him and the counsellor would put together a safety plan, so you can talk about issues safely. If he cannot stick to it, we end couple counselling. Violence is that serious.)
Now I’ve got that off my chest, I wish your husband was not so determined to solve all his own problems - because he has a million of them and seems determined to make them worse. However, he really does seem to be at crisis point; there are some positive changes and hopefully he is beginning to come out of the worst.
If it was me, I would insist on him coming to RELATE. (I can’t tell you, how many people come because their partner has issued an ultimatum and stuck to it.) Everything else, like feeling better about yourself, will follow on from taking just such a stand. You are going to have to be very brave but sitting at home and worrying won’t change anything.
Dear Andrew,
I read your book and it has helped, but it’s tough at times seeing exactly where we fit in.
My wife told me “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” and thinks it’s because I’ve overreacted too often to minor situations, particularly in public. While that might have something to do with it and I’ve worked to improve my problems (which she acknowledges I’ve done), I still think it’s a deeper issue and she latched on to this to keep from addressing her own problems.
We’ve been together more than 20 years and she’s never been a sexual person, so it’s not entirely surprising that she doesn’t have much interest in sex now. And she also has physical problems that make sex less enjoyable. But I think she’s never resolved her sexual hangups from upbringing and getting pregnant as a teen and being abandoned by her boyfriend and mother. Sex was something she did then solely to appease and keep a boyfriend and it feels like she’s doing the same thing now, only with a husband, and her ILYB is partly lashing out at me for a lifetime of being subjected to sex to satisfy others and not because of any interest on her part.
She also has acted out much like I read is typical of people in midlife crisis mode - drinking more, flirting, hanging with new and younger friends (including a male “best friend” who stays over weekends and spend hours on end at our house), focusing even more on her appearance, spending much of her time on her computer and questioning why we don’t have more at this time of our life - including blaming me for not making more money when we both consciously decided to focus more on our personal lives rather than careers. I would have had to move years ago if I really wanted to focus on career and she knows that and didn’t want any part of it.
She always said she didn’t want to get old and has hit her 40s kicking and screaming about the thought of leaving her youth behind. I’ve showed her some information on midlife crisis and says she sees herself there, but will not admit that’s the case. We are in counseling and she seems to be starting to acknowledge that the problem’s not all with me, but she does not like exploring her feelings and I think would rather go about life as if nothing has happened.
What can I do to help resolve this? I feel that maybe she will get through this in time, but I don’t know if I have the patience, particularly when she continues to try and avoid the situation as much as possible.
Andrew writes: I am glad that my book has been helpful and that you are over the hump of the ILYB crisis. There seem to be three sets of issues that have now come to the fore: sex, mid-life crisis and exhaustion from being the one that has to deal with all the emotional problems.
Taking the mid-life crisis first, I like to think of this as mid-life readjustment: focusing on things we missed in the first half of our lives in the second half. If she has always been very family focussed, she could be ready to look outside. If she has become interested in material possessions, this is perhaps a sign that she wants to have a career or start a business herself. So instead of seeing these comments as an attack on you - I know that is how it might seem - use them to help empower her to make the necessary changes.
In every relationship, there is one partner who brings up all the issues. Over time, this role can get very tiring and it is easy to wish that your wife did not keep closing her eyes. However, she has an equally important role: keeping a sense of proportion. Two people forever exploring their feelings would probably end up going round in circles. So do not underestimate her contribution. The answer is probably to find a middle way between your two differing skills - unfortunately, the more you push down on the exploring end, the more she will switch off. Hopefully your counselling has begun to address this problem, but no longer seeing your wife’s behaviour as a ‘problem’ will help too.
Finally, there are the sexual issues. From her history, it is not surprising that your wife would rather forget than focus on problems. However, it is making you truly unhappy. Have you shared with her just how much? Counselling could be a good opportunity to let her know in a controlled and kind way. Look again at my chapter on PLAY, for ideas to make your marriage more intimate. If your counsellor works for RELATE, he or she could refer you to sex therapist who will help you communicate better on this subject and work out a treatment programme for you.
Dear Andrew,
My husband and I have been married over 20 years and have two lovely children together who are away at college. Last year my husband admitted that he had been having an affair with a woman from an overseas office (he travels a lot for business) and that she was pregnant. He is truly repentant and wants to rebuild our marriage. He is racked with guilt and very depressed. We have been going to therapy intermittently (due to his travels) and I do now understand the part I played in causing the conditions for the affair and have apologized for this.
I have forgiven him the affair and want to continue with our lives together but it is so hard when there is a child (born a few months ago) as this means continued reminders and contact with the mother which in turn means that rebuilding the marriage and recovery of trust are so much more difficult.
You are absolutely right when you write (in reply to an earlier letter) that couples feel differently before and after the birth of the affair child. Before the birth I said I would try to include this child in my life and I meant it but now that my husband has his new daughter (and you have no idea how much it hurts to write those words) I am finding it impossible to contemplate not only me being part of her life but my husband also although I suppose I have no right to stop him knowing his child if he wants to. At the moment he has only seen her once as he has appreciated that this is very difficult for me. However, he thinks he should play some role in her life in the future apart from that of financial provider. When I ask him what that means exactly he can’t really say which doesn’t help me much either!
In addition, the fact that no one else knows he is the father means that we cannot use a third party, such as a grand-parent, to act as go between for visitation to avoid contact with the mother. It also means that I don’t have anyone to confide in either. It is my decision not to tell our children at this stage whilst we are still feeling our way in the marriage as they love and respect their father so much and I am afraid they may reject him ( and perhaps me too if I stay with him). The family times we have together are the only moments in my life which I can even vaguely enjoy. (Obviously, if the need arises my husband will be the one to tell them.) I am normally a very happy and positive person but now feel absolutely empty and humiliated, although I try not to show it to the outside world. I have tried to take things a day at a time as you advise in your book but at times I feel absolutely overwhelmed by the enormity of the situation and so angry to be in it at all.
I also feel that my husband is not helping me enough to get through this stage as he is very reluctant to talk about the situation even at agreed times. ( We decided together to instigate a programmed moment to talk each week so as not to be anxious all the time but his travels abroad mean these often don’t happen.) I feel we spend our lives tip-toeing around the issues most of the time.
I really want to move forward together and would really appreciate any help you could offer as it is very hard to find guidance for this situation where the presence of a child means the “golden rule” of no contact with a past affair partner is so difficult to put into practice. I think I could much more easily accept the child into my life if this could be achieved without physical contact with the mother. Just like your other correspondent too, I also feel so hurt that I will in future have to be sharing my husband’s affections with someone who is not part of our family.
Many thanks for your time.
Andrew writes: First I want to congratulate you on how far you have travelled down a tough and very rocky road. You should give yourself a pat on the back and tell yourself ‘well done’ - because truly you are doing better than could ever be expected.
Recovery from infidelity is about negotiating a series of stages: Shock and Disbelief (After the discovery). Intense Questioning (Trying to piece together everything that happened). Decision Time (Should I stay or should I go) Hope (Everything might not be lost) Attempted Normality. (Trying to cope and put the past behind you) and you’ve now reached the most difficult stage….. Despair. This is when all the bodies / hidden issues float to the surface. Unfortunately, lots of people tip toe round each other at this point - because both parties are hurt and traumatised - and instead of dealing and solving these problems, everything congeals into a nasty lumpen block.
My concern is that the baby has put such a wall between the two of you that it is very hard to communicate and help each other through this mess. If you were my clients, I would be tempted to ban all talk about the baby for a few weeks so that you can concentrate on the issues that are ‘here and now’ between the two of you. It is vital that you stop putting off talking and truly open up to each other.
Moving from the state of your marriage, to how you are coping…… this is far too big a load for you to carry on your own. You need a sensible friend, your mother, your sister…. someone has to let you unload and not feel so alone or ‘in you head’ about all this. (Pouring the full details - rather than the headlines - to your husband will just make him shut down with shame and guilt)
Something has to be done about your emptiness, humiliation and anger. You need to begin to mourn, look at what you lost and find new ways of feeding those needs. Start by taking a large piece of paper and writing down everything that bugs you - for example, ‘no longer being the only mother of his children’ and keep going until everything, no matter how petty, is out. Then begin to think about what lies behind the most hurtful losses - for example behind ‘only mother’ could be ’status’. Finally, look for other ways of getting status, or feeling good about yourself or whatever - beyond from your husband. For example, aiming for promotion at work, walking Hadrian’s wall or taking an Open University Degree.
Eventually, you will be ready to start on the child issues. I do not underestimate the difficulty - but at least you will have the knowledge that you have tackled and overcome so much already. If there is any golden rule, it is probably the golden rule for life: be as generous as possible. I’ve seen time and time again that generous gestures attract generosity back, while anger and bitterness are returned in kind too. Being practical, it is not really possible for your husband to have access to a baby without the mother being around. I know this is tough and bloody unfair but one of the advantages of being older is that we can accept that life is not always fair. As for when the baby gets older, well nobody knows what will happen - how your husband will feel, whether the mother will cooperate or how you will feel, so let’s not sweat that just yet.
So summing up, I feel the pain in every line you write but try and break it down into manageable chunks - like I’ve done in my reply - and chew on only the most urgent parts. At the moment, it is building up communication with your husband and getting some emotional support for you. Do keep me posted.
Dear Andrew,
I read your book with much interest. My wife and I are in our thirties with a wonderful 1 1/2 year old son. From the beginning I struggled to feel much limerance for my wife and have tried to split up many times. I am happy with my wife 80% of the time but usually a couple of times a month I truly feel like I want to split up because I feel like I don’t love her or even like her. I have never felt like she is the “only one in the world for me” and although it may sound silly she is the last person I would want to be stranded on a desert island with!!
Should I keep trying in hope that I will develop true love for her in the future? I love my son so much and feel that it would be much better to split now so he doesn’t know any different than when he is a bit older and things would be much harder for him.
Andrew writes: I’m glad that you found my book helpful. I’m sorry, as well, that you did not experience much limerance (the heady, walking-on-air part of f